i believe im the first - Page 4 - Dodge Caliber SRT-4 Forums

Aaron@Realtune · 07-11-2009, 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SUNBEAST ORANGE

"Absolutely wrong thinking guy's",,,,,,,,,,"590cc" only states what those injectors are "capable" of flowing. Wheres the re-maping of the fuel curve that tells those injectors to flow more fuel and changes the "duty cycle" of those injectors at those boost levels. I don't see any item which does that. On the "stock" ( I don't see MS1 there) computer there's a ceiling, only so much lee-way that it can accomodate a change in boost. That works only to a certain extent and then it can't keep up with the demands. How many people have mistakenly thrown a blower or NOS with a set of bigger injectors on their car without addressing the fuel maping/curve and blown up their engine,,,,,,happens all the time. In this cenario I suspect the MAP/TIP clamp went beyond the "stock" computers capability. one good hot day and you get caught with your pants down. How far can you go with a M/T clamp lieing to the computer, telling it your runnig 12 PSI when you really running 22 PSI.
In short bigger injectors don't neccessarily mean more fuel. If that were true your car would not idle or drive on moderate cruise correctly the minute you put bigger injectors in. The computer doesn't know that you did all this
sh#%t to your car. That fuel curve needs to be re-mapped somehow.

Im sorry but your not correct.

Larger injectors does mean more fuel. Plain and simple.

Ill try and keep it simple as I can ramble on all day and even lose myself in babble sometimes ...

During non-Wot application the o2 sensor/PCM calibration will attempt to adjust the fuel trims accordingly. Under WOT, it goes to a pre-set map and has no way to tell the injector it is ''dumping'' too much fuel. It does not tell the injector it can only dump X amount of fuel [where x = physical amount of gas]. It does tell the injector to open up Y [physical opening of injector]. With it being a pre-set map and no factory wideband sensor, the pcm has no idea how much fuel is being dumped, it only knows how much the injector is ''opened''

So if your using 490cc injectors and 590cc injectors, they will both ''open up'' the same =Y, but the X amount of fuel will obviously be different based on the physical size of the injector.

beavercanoe · 07-11-2009, 09:09 AM

Lots of talk about leaning out and injectors.

Anyone know if the line pressure from the tank on the stock fuel sending unit is beefy enough to hand 590s?

Just curious, cus bigger garden hose doesnt mean more water if the pressure isnt there.

If your maxing out the line pressure wouldnt the bigger injectors suffer from it?

SUNBEAST ORANGE · 07-11-2009, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaron@Realtune

Im sorry but your not correct.

Larger injectors does mean more fuel. Plain and simple.

Ill try and keep it simple as I can ramble on all day and even lose myself in babble sometimes ...

During non-Wot application the o2 sensor/PCM calibration will attempt to adjust the fuel trims accordingly. Under WOT, it goes to a pre-set map and has no way to tell the injector it is ''dumping'' too much fuel. It does not tell the injector it can only dump X amount of fuel [where x = physical amount of gas]. It does tell the injector to open up Y [physical opening of injector]. With it being a pre-set map and no factory wideband sensor, the pcm has no idea how much fuel is being dumped, it only knows how much the injector is ''opened''

So if your using 490cc injectors and 590cc injectors, they will both ''open up'' the same =Y, but the X amount of fuel will obviously be different based on the physical size of the injector.

Again, there there is no fuel tuning,,,,,,,as I said, that only works up until a certain point, then KA-BOOM!. Your own words "PCM will ATTEMPT". Not good enough ! As you also state "PCM has no idea how much fuel is being dumped. Well that also interprets as PCM also has no idea how much fuel is "NOT" being dumped. If thats the case then lets just run 40 psi of boost ! You just can't keep going into the stratosphere on the stock computer. Nobody, and I mean nobody sells a blower/nos/turbo upgrade kit without some form or manner or program or means to address higher fuel demands. If they do, run from them as fast as you can. I've bought systems in the past from well known people in the industry and they always provide reworked fuel. ex: Anbody who buys a NOS bottle with a substantial shot (dry system) and a set of bigger injector and thinks that gonna work is in for allot of hurtin. I think your focusing on the injectors and not what actually happened in this guy's scenario.

Aaron@Realtune · 07-11-2009, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SUNBEAST ORANGE

Again, there there is no fuel tuning,,,,,,,as I said, that only works up until a certain point, then KA-BOOM!. Your own words "PCM will ATTEMPT". Not good enough ! As you also state "PCM has no idea how much fuel is being dumped. Well that also interprets as PCM also has no idea how much fuel is "NOT" being dumped. If thats the case then lets just run 40 psi of boost ! You just can't keep going into the stratosphere on the stock computer. Nobody, and I mean nobody sells a blower/nos/turbo upgrade kit without some form or manner or program or means to address higher fuel demands. If they do, run from them as fast as you can. I've bought systems in the past from well known people in the industry and they always provide reworked fuel. ex: Anbody who buys a NOS bottle with a substantial shot (dry system) and a set of bigger injector and thinks that gonna work is in for allot of hurtin. I think your focusing on the injectors and not what actually happened in this guy's scenario.

I replied to your statement of how the injectors play a role, not what happened to this guys car.

You and I are not on the same page. We will leave it at that.

SUNBEAST ORANGE · 07-11-2009, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaron@Realtune

I replied to your statement of how the injectors play a role, not what happened to this guys car.

You and I are not on the same page. We will leave it at that.

And my initial response was to the guy's who stated that the bigger injectors took care of the fueling. My point was that they in themselves are not enough. There's more to it than that. This whole post is about this poor guy's engine detonating.

SRTst · 07-11-2009, 08:25 PM

Aaron will be the first to tell you not to surge your stock turbo at part throttle. He will be the first to tell you that the map/tip clamp is the CRUDE way of tuning and it's tuning for WOT basically. You cranking to boost to 22psi will also create significant amount of boost at part throttle but fuel supply is not all there. He only offered the Map/Tip as a cheaper alternative so people would see what a simple thing can do for their car and hopefully make them want to move on up to the much better option of the Realtune Stage1 (FIC).

What he probably won't say but I will is that the Caliber community at the moment is pretty cheap to be honest. Not too many people are yet willing to really dig into their pockets and into their new cars but eventually that will all change. Dodge gave us a lot of great stuff on this car and with just basic mods and a clamp it's a 12sec capable car. It's just that people try to get TOO MUCH out of $75 part.

iluvhootersu · 07-11-2009, 08:46 PM

just to let u guys know that i am 80% sure the map/tip clamp didnt crack the wall....lik i stated befor that i had to replace the "whole" head because of a accident i got into i ran the car and the raditor hos was rubbing on the pully and fucked it up the dealer told me that they might hae missd the cracked and what i did helped it... they do not know about the piggy back so this was a theory of mine

07-11-2009, 09:09 AM	#32 (permalink)
beavercanoe Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 69	injectors Lots of talk about leaning out and injectors. Anyone know if the line pressure from the tank on the stock fuel sending unit is beefy enough to hand 590s? Just curious, cus bigger garden hose doesnt mean more water if the pressure isnt there. If your maxing out the line pressure wouldnt the bigger injectors suffer from it? __________________ Crazy for Sale! Cheap, some assembly required

07-11-2009, 08:25 PM	#36 (permalink)
SRTst Fastest Canadian CSRT-4 Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 134	Aaron will be the first to tell you not to surge your stock turbo at part throttle. He will be the first to tell you that the map/tip clamp is the CRUDE way of tuning and it's tuning for WOT basically. You cranking to boost to 22psi will also create significant amount of boost at part throttle but fuel supply is not all there. He only offered the Map/Tip as a cheaper alternative so people would see what a simple thing can do for their car and hopefully make them want to move on up to the much better option of the Realtune Stage1 (FIC). What he probably won't say but I will is that the Caliber community at the moment is pretty cheap to be honest. Not too many people are yet willing to really dig into their pockets and into their new cars but eventually that will all change. Dodge gave us a lot of great stuff on this car and with just basic mods and a clamp it's a 12sec capable car. It's just that people try to get TOO MUCH out of $75 part. __________________ [>]Powered by: Realtune Performance *[>]NEW* Personal Best: 12.58@113MPH w/ 1.91 60ft [>] FIRST Canadian Caliber SRT-4 in 12s [>] Fastest Canadian Caliber SRT-4 to date!**

07-11-2009, 08:46 PM	#37 (permalink)
iluvhootersu Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: parkland, wa Posts: 313	just to let u guys know that i am 80% sure the map/tip clamp didnt crack the wall....lik i stated befor that i had to replace the "whole" head because of a accident i got into i ran the car and the raditor hos was rubbing on the pully and fucked it up the dealer told me that they might hae missd the cracked and what i did helped it... they do not know about the piggy back so this was a theory of mine __________________ -bwoody upper pressure pipe w/psi turbo xs bov -3 inch custum fab ram intake -perrin manual boost controller -exaust depot 3'' exhaust with rez -ptp custom magnaflow cat -mpx triple pillar -ptp 16psi wga -590cc injectors -innovate lc-1 wideband -ngk iridium 1 step colder gaped .032 -xd-16 a/f ratio gauge -ptp map/tip -autosport boost gauge -flat black hood 18 psi

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